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NATIONAL ESOL  PANEL

Meeting on Monday 12th May 2008 at 11 am
Scottish Government
Europa Building
450 Argyle Street
Glasgow G2 8LG

DRAFT MINUTES

Attendees

.
Euan Reid	Chair
Peter Beaumont	SG/LLD
Clare El Azebbi	SG/LLD
Anne Simpson	CLDMS (Aberdeenshire Council)
Morag Campbell	SFC
Robin Ashton	ASC (Langside College)
Robert Quinn	SQA
Mhoraig Green	COSLA
Jayne Stuart	Learning Link Scotland
Iain Ferguson	CBI Scotland
Luta Mawusa	ESOL Learner
Nina Ivashinenko	ESOL Learner
Secretariat: Isabel Russell	SG/LLD

1. Welcome and Introductions
Euan welcomed Mhoraig Green COSLA who is replacing Robert Nichol, and Iain Ferguson CBI Scotland and Nina Ivashinenko, ESOL learner to their first meeting.

2. Apologies
Anne Pia HMIE, Douglas Guest EHRC and Andy Willox FSB sent apologies.

3. Minutes of meeting on 4 February 2008
Euan asked that 2 small amendments were made. At item 6 under Curriculum Framework, line 4, change "standard" to  "scope" and under Professional Development, last line add in "normally" between not and serve.

Action: Secretariat to amend minutes and put final copy on website.

4. Matters arising
Action Points from Minutes -

1. Secretariat to consider allowing providers access to update website
Isabel informed the Panel that the Webmaster had advised against this as, apart from cost and monitoring time involved, allowing access to outsiders could compromise the integrity of the information put on the site.

• Panel accepted that information should continue to be routed through SG.

2. Secretariat to amend Curriculum Framework Working Party Remit to include 'workplace' as a sector

• Completed

3. Panel members to email secretariat with nominations for working parties, or further comments on remit, by 8th February.

• Euan thanked everyone for responses and advised that both Working Parties are now up and running.

At this point in the meeting Euan invited Nina and Luta, as ESOL learners, to express their views and those of their fellow students on their experience of ESOL provision. The following points were made:

• ESOL beginners need special attention which should not only include learning English but help with everyday tasks, such as completing forms, and registering with GPs.  The YWCA course had been helpful in this regard;
• On arrival in Scotland, it is difficult to find out about ESOL courses and learners depend on family and friends to advise;
• It would help some learners if accreditation was offered in community based courses;
• There are waiting lists for colleges, some over 4 months depending on level of learning;
• It would be helpful if more crèche/childcare facilities were available for ESOL courses as this can act as a significant barrier, with some learners only able to attend classes once a week;
• College setting is too formal with no specific individual help to students; and
• More flexibility with timing of courses would help learners.

Comments from the Panel:

• Nina's and Luta's experiences emphasise the need for "joined up" work within and between the 3 main providing sectors, and also that every sector has a role to play in supporting ESOL;
• Smaller classes are more expensive for providers;
• Could colleges assist with accreditation in community settings? This was possible if students are registered with an SQA approved centre; and
• We should be looking at promoting/offering accreditation in all sectors' learning, although this may not be appropriate for all learners, especially those at beginner/elementary level.

Euan thanked Nina and Luta for their very worthwhile contributions and invited them to join in at any point in the rest of the meeting.

5a Report from Curriculum Framework Working Party
Members had received update from the WP's 1st meeting.

Comments from Panel:

• Robin expressed concerns that the report suggested that the WP had digressed from the original remit, with its focus on learning, and appeared to have added on other tasks;
• Others felt that perhaps the report had been a bit misleading as feedback from members suggested the meeting was more focused than the report implied;
• Clare thought that looking at what other countries have, would be useful and highlighted the importance of advice and guidance in the Curriculum Framework;
• In 'terms of reference' bullet 4, Robert commented that everyone should be offered the opportunity for accreditation;
• Euan will press the group's chair for a work plan; he is waiting on more details with costings for additional resources requests in the report; and
• Euan will pass on thanks from the Panel to the WP, along with comments.

Action: Euan to pass on thanks and comments from Panel and request a work plan.

5b Report from Professional Development Working Party
Members had received update from the WP's 1st meeting.

Comments from Panel:

• Euan will request a work plan and has asked for more details with costings for "proposals to Panel";
• In "Actions" : bullet 2 – clarification needed on where TQFE fits, and at last bullet - ref. to CLD/ALN tutors should broaden to "tutors across all sectors";
• Under "additional resources", the WP’s concerns were acknowledged. The Panel agreed that a framework for guidance and administrative support staff is something that can be considered at a later date, but should be dropped from the WP's remit;
• Morag mentioned that SFEU has set up a Communities of Practice website which has information on staff development and suggested Colin Buchanan may be contact;
• Clare said that Skills Development Scotland (learndirect scotland) have a role to play in future developments and employers of ESOL staff should also be consulted;
• Jayne asked if Lifelong Learning UK (LLUK, the sector skills council for community learning and development, further education, higher education, libraries, archives and information services, and work based learning) could perhaps be involved;
• Peter noted that a sector skills council leads on ESOL [subsequently confirmed as Asset Skills, the sector skills council for property, housing, facilities management and cleaning] and advised that LLUK will also have an interest;
• Anne cautioned that "dead ends" should be avoided and that employers' needs vary, such that different employers will require different frameworks; and
• Clare also said it was necessary for WP to liaise with both the CLD Standards Council and the FE Professional Development Forum.

Action: Euan to pass on thanks and comments from Panel and request a work plan.

5c Funding
Peter gave an update on the funding meeting held to decide split of £3m available for 2008/09.

• In the absence of any further research since the GHK report of 2007, it was decided to keep the current methodology of 10% retained for national development work and the remainder split 60% colleges, 40% CLD.

For future funding

• The intention is to get updated evidence of ESOL provision, provided by all parties on as consistent a basis as possible, to allow us to make decisions on future funding.

Other actions include

• Continue to encourage and support partnership working between all sectors;
• Discuss ESOL outcomes and indicators with COSLA;
• Ensure areas of effective practice are identified and disseminated; and
• Prioritise national development funds available - at present, ideas exceed available resources.

Comments from the Panel:

• Robin stated that hours per learner were important, not just number of learners – but that comparison between sectors would not necessarily be straightforward;
• Anne pointed out the importance of outcomes and the impact of learning; and
• Jayne stated that "distance travelled" by the learner as well as impacts were important.

Action: Euan and SG to consider priorities for national development funding.

5d Website
Isabel gave an update on website since launch in February, thanking Katherine Tierney for the work she had put in to set up and develop.

• News section added;
• Only 4 people have signed up for newsletter, but known ESOL contact lists can be used initially;
• Over 30 e-mails received, mainly providers supplying course information;
• Feedback about website in the main positive;
• Unique hits in first 3 months totalled 671; and
• Suggestion of practitioners forum still under consideration.

Comments from Panel

• Nina said she thought very few learners would know of the website and suggested that it should be  publicised more;
• Robin said while the website content was OK, overall it was a passive, "web 1" type of site. He would be in favour of augmenting it with, for example, a practitioner forum;
• Jayne suggested a short life group (perhaps even getting interested parties together for a one day meeting) to look at the website to improve and develop it; and
• Clare offered to lead this, with support from Isabel.

Action: Clare to lead a short focus group on how to improve and publicise the website and enewsletter.

5e Reports from CLD Partnerships
Anne spoke to the report that members had received, commenting

• Both CLD and college learning are equally important;
• In her view, the report justifies the funding split; and
• Aberdeenshire had received 3 year ESF funding for ESOL in the workplace.

Comments from Panel

• Iain commented that many businesses were still reliant on migrant labour especially in the hospitality/food & drink industry and transport projects which were on the increase;
• Also there would be more employment with the Glasgow Commonwealth Games; and
• The CBI were looking at labour requirements in Scotland and the inflow/outflow of migrant workers.

5f Reports from Colleges
Morag spoke to the report that members had received commenting

• No report from Sabhal Mor Ostaig college included – this was the only college which had not accepted the SFC's offer of grant;
• Reports were not complete as they are based on the academic year which ends in June; and
• Statistics would not be finalised till January 2009.

Comments from Panel

• Robert advised that uptake of SQA ESOL units had increased substantially over the past 2 years with 3,500 in 2006: 7,000 in 2007; and over 7,000 to date in  2008.
• Robin queried whether the reference in para 9 to colleges delivering "up to" Access 2 and 3 levels was correct - Morag undertook to investigate and report back; and

Peter said it was encouraging to see partnership working and asked whether draft information from the colleges would be available in time for November's Panel meeting – again, Morag undertook to investigate.

Action: Morag to ascertain whether draft information/statistics for 2007/08 could be available by November, and to check the wording of para 9.

6 Current National Developments
Clare spoke to the report that members had received commenting

• There will be 25 new qualified (CELTA) ESOL tutors from May.

Comments from Panel

• Robert noted that SQA have produced substantial learning & teaching resources for ESOL practitioners in support of its NQ units. Robin agreed that these resources were very helpful, but asked if they could be made available in the public section of SQA's website, so that practitioners who don't work in an SQA centre could access them; and
• Robert undertook to investigate and if possible get details put on main SQA website and arrange for a link to esolscotland website.

Action: Robert to find out if learning and teaching resources for ESOL could be made available on main SQA website and to liaise with Isabel re link to ESOL website.

7 Future Developments
Clare spoke to the report that members had received.

Comments from Panel

• Item 8 training - care should be taken to ensure that we are not training practitioners who already have relevant skills/qualifications;
• Item 9 should be aligned with SCQF, as well as CEF;
• Item 12 this should be linked with the Professional Development WP – and may indeed come after it has completed its tasks; and
• Item 14 NABS are relatively new so could be left as is at the moment; however it will be important to emphasise good practice in assessment.

8 Upcoming Work
Members had received a Funding Principles Working Party – Draft Terms of Reference

• Euan has asked Morag to lead this short life Working Party which will consist of 3-4 members and
• Panel members were asked to advise Isabel of any nominations for the group.

Comments from Panel

• Working Party should take into account cost per hour of learner and that one size does not fit all
• Cost can depend on what is being delivered and where
• Mhoraig expressed concern about unmet demand and significant waiting lists.

Action: Members to e-mail Isabel re nominations for WP by Friday 16 May.

9 Any Other Business
No items were put forward

Euan closed the meeting.

Following the meeting Ann Morgan-Thomas from Stevenson College gave a presentation on assessment tools for the initial screening and placing of learners for use in teaching ESOL. The project had been commissioned by Learning Connections, Scottish Government. Those present thanked Ann for her clear and helpful presentation, with appropriate recommendations. It was recommended that Ann ensures that the working parties are updated on this.

Return to the National Panel minutes page.