The Adult ESOL Strategy for Scotland
The National Panel
Learn English
Professional Development
Evaluation Guide
Resources
Funding for Learners
CLD Partnership Area
College Area
ESOL Practitioners' Network and E-news
Research
Events
ESOL Conference
ESOL and Citizenship
ESOL Challenge Fund
Useful Links
Feedback and Enquiries
NATIONAL ESOL PANEL
Meeting on Monday 10th November 2008 at 11am
Scottish Government
Europa Building
450 Argyle Street
Glasgow G2 8LG
MINUTES
Attendees
| . | |
| Euan Reid (ER) | Chair |
| Peter Beaumont (PB) | SG/LLD |
| Clare El Azebbi (CE) | SG/LLD |
| Jackie Borge (JB) | SG/LLD |
| Morag Campbell (MC) | SFC |
| Robin Ashton (RA) | ASC (Langside College) |
| Robert Quinn (RQ) | SQA |
| Mhoraig Green (MG) | COSLA |
| Jayne Stuart (JS) | Learning Link Scotland |
| Andrew Brawley (AB) | HMIE |
| Philippa Clark (PC) | UNISON |
| Wendy Burton (WB) | STUC |
| Nina Ivashinenko (IS) | Learner |
| Sharon Simpson (SS) | Asset Skills (Sector Skills Council) |
| Brian Holland (BH) | Jobcentre Plus |
| Archie Campbell (AC) | Workers Educational Association |
| John Landon (JL) | Convenor, Professional Development Working Party |
| Isabel Russell (IR) | SG/LLD (Secretariat) |
1. Welcome and Introductions
ER welcomed everyone to the meeting and as there were new members and visitors attending, he asked everyone to introduce themselves.
2. Apologies
Apologies were received from:
Iain Ferguson CBI Scotland;
Andy Willox FSB;
Douglas Guest EHRC
3. Minutes of meeting on 9 September 2008
There were no amendments to the draft minutes, so these were adopted as a correct record.
Action: Secretariat to put final minutes on website.
4. Matters arising
All Action Points from the Minutes had been completed.
PB advised that there had been 1 meeting regarding ESOL waiting lists in Glasgow and he had been in touch with Glasgow Community Planning Partnership to invite them to a meeting in the next few weeks to take this matter forward.
PB also advised that in respect of the equivalence of SQA ESOL qualifications with QCA ones for citizenship applications, Fiona Hyslop had written to Jacqui Smith, Home Secretary, in September asking for an early resolution to the problem. There had been a response from Home Office officials that advice on Scottish qualifications had been reissued to staff but PB did not feel it would be fully resolved until the Statutory Instrument is changed and will pursue the matter.
5 Updates from Working Parties (WP)
Curriculum Framework (CF)
ER advised that the WP had not met since last Panel meeting so there was no update. He will ask the convenor Joanna McPake to give an update at the next Panel meeting.
Action: ER to ask Joanna McPake to give an update from the CFWP at next Panel meeting on 9 February 2009.
5a Professional Development (PD)
Members had received the minutes from the latest PDWP meeting. [Further paper at Annex 1 to minutes.] John Landon was present at this Panel meeting, and presented a progress report of the WP, as follows.
JL advised that the PDWP, in developing the PD model, outlined in their latest report, intend to invite practitioners from particular areas of TESOL to act as 'expert witnesses' and to use their evidence as a basis for discussion and refinement of the evolving PD model. The current routes to qualifications revealed:
- a lack of availability of PD opportunities outside the central belt in Scotland;
- restrictions in the mode of delivery;
- poor articulation of qualifications;
- complexity of navigating a PD route across existing teaching qualifications;
- courses marketed as leading to a teaching qualification not meeting standards;
- some qualifications were not always relevant to what the learners needed; and
- qualifications for FE ESOL staff need to meet TQFE standards.
SQA have been commissioned to carry out a scoping study to find out the potential market for the potential Scottish qualification. Further work to be carried out includes:
- a small scale documentation of UK HEIs who offer face-to-face, on-line and/or blended ESOL learning opportunities, into the potential for incorporation of elements of existing programmes into a Masters degree in TESOL; and
- an examination of the relevant LLUK standards to determine the extent to which they cover PD in CLD and Workplace ESOL contexts.
JL also presented a suggested 3-stage framework for TESOL qualifications to the Panel.
Comments from the Panel:
- RQ confirmed that the SQA had been asked to undertake a detailed scoping study to look at the options presented by the PDWP - this study would look at:
a) potential uptake of the options presented;
b) the skills base of prospective students and tutors;
c) exploring potential cooperation/collaboration with Cambridge/Trinity awarding bodies;
d) British Council requirements; and
e) potential development costs of any new qualification (Units and/or Professional Development award). - CE commented that she hoped that Scottish qualifications would be recognised in England;
- CE also noted that social practice methodology is indicated as the basis of both Stage 2 routes;
- RA asked if the additional units for Cambridge or Trinity Certificate holders would be the same units which formed part of the new SQA level 9 Certificate qualification. JL responded that the same units would be used;
- RA agreed that the offering of two options at Level 8/9 was useful, as Cambridge and Trinity Certificates were likely to continue to be offered by providers because they were attractive to those who wanted the option to teach ESOL abroad. He went on to report that in recent years, with the development of ESOL provision in Scotland, there were increasing numbers undertaking ESOL teacher training with the intention of finding work in Scotland for whom a specific Scottish award might be more suitable;
- ER commented that all suggestions on the framework needed to be considered, since there were likely to be tensions between the status quo and possible move to Scottish qualifications;
- RA made reference to the minutes of the last ESOL panel meeting which had referred to the difficulties of defining 'fully qualified' in FE. He reported that colleges had to make annual returns to the Funding Council stating how many staff were TQFE or equivalent and that staff who met such criteria received higher pay and therefore, in practice, there was a standard set for being considered 'fully qualified';
- JS commented that not every ESOL tutor wants or needs to do TQFE and asked that alternative career routes for those working entirely or mainly outside the college sector should be included;
- RA stated that TQFE should be a stage in itself (Stage 3 on the diagram) as for FE employees, it was only when they achieved TQFE or equivalent status would they be considered 'fully qualified'. This would mean that Masters level study became Stage 4 on the diagram;
- RA suggested that as the Stage 2 qualification was at SCQF level 9, this would suggest remission only from the undergraduate TQFE, not the post-graduate TQFE which sits at SCQF level 11; RA commented that such a framework might reduce take up of Diploma level awards from Cambridge or Trinity if prior to this practitioners had completed a Stage 2 qualification followed by a TQFE;
- PB said that the Professional Development Forum would have to take a view on whether the suggested qualification framework was appropriate;
- JS asked what consideration would be given to Recognition of Prior Learning in Stages 1 and 2 of the TQFE. JL advised this had not yet been discussed by WP but would need to be considered; and
- RQ said that a unitised framework for any new qualifications would be very useful, since some of the components being discussed could also be helpful in the school sector for those delivering EAL services.
ER thanked JL and WP for their work and reports, the Panel for their comments today, and encouraged JL and colleagues to proceed with the further development of their proposals in the directions indicated for the proposed consultation in Spring 2009.
5b Funding Principles (FP)
Members had received a short update.
MC advised that the WP had not made as much progress as they had hoped. Overall, they were aiming to develop a framework to look at support for different types of learner and how these relate to real costs. This would include asylum seekers, migrants, long term residents [but not 'commercial learners'], and would recognise their differing needs for learning.
The WP intended to identify common costs across the main sectors and data gathering was underway. While MC could get information on colleges, help was needed for the voluntary and CLD sectors. MC had met with PB and IR to discuss external help and intended to produce a scoping paper in the next week.
Comments from Panel:
- JS advised that she had now joined the WP and would assist with information required from the voluntary sector;
- CE offered to help with information from CLDPs;
- ER encouraged the WP to bid promptly for any external work required; and
- JS commented that the voluntary sector was finding it increasingly hard to source funds due to the constraints on budgets across CLDPs.
Action: MC to produce a scoping paper for SG from FPWP on work required to be undertaken by an external contractor.
6 Focus on Workplace ESOL
6a CBI
Members had received a short paper on CBI’s view on the general principles of ESOL.
Comments from the Panel
- PB welcomed the CBI’s endorsement of the Adult ESOL strategy;
- CE requested that a link to the Scottish Shortage Occupation List be sent to the panel members;
- JS suggested that it may be helpful to raise the profile of ESOL in the workplace if employers who have migrant workers and support work based learning were recognised and rewarded, perhaps with awards through Learndirect Scotland;
- ER commented that there had been good examples of work based ESOL in the October 2008 Ofsted report on Adult ESOL in England;
- CE advised that a project to collect examples of effective practice in work based ESOL learning is being undertaken and should be contracted in March 2009;
- SS said that she was aware of both good and bad examples of work based learning;
- JL commented that there was a need to distinguish between health and safety taught in colleges rather than the workplace; and
- AC advised that the WEA was involved in workplace ESOL and that their experience was that employers were not willing to pay for workers’ ESOL learning. AC said it would be good if they could meet providers half way.
Action: IR to send link to Panel for UK Government's Migration Advisory Committee's Scottish Shortage Occupation List.
6b FSB
No paper received. Andy Willox has offered to present at the next Panel meeting.
6c STUC
WB gave an overview of the STUC’s involvement with ESOL.
Paper at Annex 2.
Comment from the Panel:
- ER commented that it was important to draw on the experience of the former National Centre for Industrial Language Training.
6d UNISON
PC gave an overview of Unison’s involvement with ESOL.
Paper at Annex 3.
Comment from the Panel:
- PC said she would send a short paper on WEA projects in Highlands and Islands (Paper at Annex 4).
6e Sector Skills Council
SS from Asset Skills.
Paper at Annex 5.
Comment from the Panel:
- AC agreed that some employers in their experience were reluctant to give time off to employees to attend ESOL learning.
6f Workers Educational Association
AC gave a presentation on the WEA's National ESOL Workplace Pilot.
Slides at Annex 6.
Comment from the Panel:
- JL commented that the pack was a useful resource for 1 of the additional units for the 2nd Stage element on the TESOL qualification; and
- JB advised a link to pack is on the Adult Literacies Online (ALO) website but she will arrange to send for ESOL website.
Action: JB to send link to WEA pilot for ESOL website.
At this point ER invited BH to give his view from JC+'s perspective of ESOL learning. BH said that he was part of the "Move On" team in Glasgow which dealt with asylum seekers who had received a determination from HO] who had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain in UK and as such could claim benefits. He indicated that it was difficult to source ESOL places for clients and in particular ESOL training which covered more than 15 hours per week, which would allow the client to claim income support rather than job seekers allowance. He said that in his experience many college waiting lists were closed and with over 600 families arriving in Scotland since April 2008 things weren't going to improve.
The Panel suggested that every encouragement should be given to unions and employers to support Workplace based ESOL, recognising the substantial mutual benefits to employers and employees, and emphasising that it was worth the investment of training funds and resources.
7 Any Other Business
- RQ stated that there was still no reference in the UK Border Agency publications, or on their website, to SQA qualifications for ESOL or of mapping to the EQF : SQA would pursue and ER advised that he had the support of the Panel in this;
- MG advised that COSLA were looking at how migration issues were being reflected in the current Single Outcome Agreements (SOAs) between local authorities and the Scottish Government, with a view to updating them; and
- CE advised that next year there would be an ESOL conference, probably around October, to share the findings of WPs and share good practice. There would also need to be a joint consultation conference in the Spring to consult on the WP draft recommendations CE is happy to set up a small working group to take arrangements forward.
Action: CE to set up small working party for the 2009 events with Learning Connections leading.
ER closed the meeting.
For information and to note diaries.
Dates of National Panel Meetings
Monday 9 February 2009 – Edinburgh
Monday 11 May 2009 – Glasgow
Monday 7 September 2009 – Glasgow
Annex 1 (Word)
Annex 2 (Word)
Annex 3 (Word)
Annex 4 (Word)
Annex 5 (Word)
Annex 6 (Powerpoint presentation inside a Word document)
Return to the National Panel minutes page.